Curse

MasterThrawn · Feb 08, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

I mean the type that has dozens of Bone Fiends following you around. I've seen this a few times, and both were N/Mo, I believe they're using Heal Area or something to keep them alive (don't know cause I never played Monk). I specialize in SS, but would like to know in case I want to switch up... Or is there something I don't know about? I using Blood of the Master to heal them up some, but still can't keep more than five around at a time it seems like.

Thanks!

mattimeo · Feb 08, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Im a MM myself. N/MO

Heal Area is very useful and theres a skill called "Verati's Sacrfice" (sry for the spelling) it gives your minions +10 health regen for -- seconds (depend on ur attrib point for death magic). You can get this skill at Copperhammer Mines

LiQuId StEeL · Feb 08, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

N/E with Glyph of Renewal to use on Veritas Sac is always nice to see. Heal area is so... mediocre.

Son of Urza · Feb 08, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Yeah, Glyph of Renewal+Verata's Sac FTW!. If minions are degening through +10 regen, they're going to die anyway.

Ghull Ka · Feb 08, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I agree, N/E with Glyph of Renewal works very well. Just use Glyph before you use Verata's Sacrifice. Then whenever Glyph is recharged, do it again. And again. And again... :-)

Use Blood of the Master for your occasional direct heal.

And try out Glyph of Lesser Energy before you raise a Bone Fiend from time to time. It's pretty helpful also.

DeanBB · Feb 08, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Starting life as a MM /monk is good, so you can use Heal Area until you get the necro minion healing spells. Dump it after that. I think I've only used a rez spell from monk once I got BotM and VS, whether specced as blood nuker or MM. Actually I tried running with some enchantment once, with high soul reaping + OoB to offset the lost energy.

Carinae · Feb 08, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

You need to be N/Mo or N/R to raise and maintain a big army. You can run Minion bomber as a N/E or N/Me. But I don't think thats what you want.

You can't glyph Verata's Sacrifice forever. Or Blood of the Master. Eventually you'll sac yourself to death or be unable to heal your minions.

This isn't even a question. Either N/Mo or N/R. Nothing else can even come close to maintaining an army like these two can. Heal Area (or Healing Spring) should be a permanent fixture on your skill bar.

Ghull Ka · Feb 08, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

You need to be N/Mo or N/R to raise and maintain a big army. You can run Minion bomber as a N/E or N/Me. But I don't think thats what you want.

You can't glyph Verata's Sacrifice forever. Or Blood of the Master. Eventually you'll sac yourself to death or be unable to heal your minions.

This isn't even a question. Either N/Mo or N/R. Nothing else can even come close to maintaining an army like these two can. Heal Area (or Healing Spring) should be a permanent fixture on your skill bar.

You are correct about sacrificing myself to death. This has never happened to me, though. I put my faith in the party's monk and they take care of me. The army that Permaverata is capable of creating works very well for absorbing damage to the party that the monk would otherwise have to heal... gives him extra time and energy to look after the necromancer who's busy cutting himself. :-)

I've broken 7 rows of fiends with the "Permaverata" method. Though I've never tried N/R, I find N/E superior to N/Mo.

BBoy_Manchild · Feb 08, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

N/R baby, healing spring and serpents quickness is a MMs best friend

HellBoy · Feb 08, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

I bring Blood Ritual along with my MM. I keep the monks energized and they help me maintain my kiddies. My record in Great Northern wall is 27 Minions/Fiends.

Carinae · Feb 08, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

I put my faith in the party's monk and they take care of me.

"Never trust a monk when death is on the line."

I hear what you're saying. But an N/Mo minion master is self-sufficient and can even solo with little trouble. Even if you had a monk available, I'd rather that they didn't have to waste time/energy healing me.

Darr · Feb 08, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

I love my N/R minon master.

Animate Bone Fiend
Favorable Winds &/or Winnowing
Healing Spring

FTW!

oobi doobi kenoobi · Feb 08, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Glyph of Lesser Energy+Verata's Sacrifice+Taste of Death..FTW! Seriously, you'll have so many minions that your hp is never in doubt. Personal best, 36 fiends/horrors ransacking the neighborhood. Now if only people took non /mo 2ndaries to farm...cookiecutter builds should be a thing of the past.

Hidden Prayers · Feb 09, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

I say N/R or N/E
Personally I never use healing spring when i play N/R MM.
The only heal i've found necessary is BotM and VS. As far as self
saccing goes, Taste of Death easily compensates for any health lost. In the event that you were being attacked, heal area would be utterly worthless as anything doing enough damage to hurt you significantly will be very close to you (sans maybe Glint) and you're just going to heal them.

N/E i have not tried glyph of renewal yet, but i do use lesser energy from time to time. I'll have to cap glyph of renewal and see how a constant VS works out.

Also, winnowing for an MM is essential when you amass a reasonable army. The amount of dmg you can tack on is much much more effective. Also serpent's quickness is a very necessary skill for lessening skill recharge time, though i'd also say have a staff or cane that reduces recharge and casting speed from time to time ( Morgriff's Scepter is a fairly well known one). I also use a +15/-1 regen energy grim cesta as well. Most of my energy comes from soul reaping or OoB anyways.

So 53-64 energy works out well.
I think the goal is to have an army that is constantly building upon itself, rather than having a mass of minions doing nothing in particular sans staying alive.

As a result of my slipshod, ramble i conclude:

N/R is my favorite minion master, and IMO the best

byteme! · Feb 09, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

N/MO all the way. "SELF SUFFICIENT" Not dependant on other monks/players who may not always be there for you when you're sacrificing. Heal Area is a must.

My order of casting to keep my minions alive are.....
1)Verata's Sacrifice (helps negate minions degen somewhat)

2)Blood of Master (sacrifice hp to heal my army)

3)Heal Area (after sacrificing hp TWICE using the above 2 skills I can heal myself AND my minions in case Blood of Master wasn't enough)

Basically I can carry an army for "almost" as long as I want. I can carry 30+ minions with me for long periods of time without a hitch. (numbers aren't accurate since I don't stand around counting the number of minions I have around but witnesses will tell you it's OVERKILL)

Btw energy is NEVER EVER EVER an issue. Being an MM you should be pumping a reasonable amount of pts. into Soul Reaping anyways. I carry items that give me 20% chance (or whatever it is) to decrease my casting and recharge times in half which also make life easier when I've got all this energy to abuse.

I could solo SF easily as long as I can overcome the early stages where my minion army is small or non-existant. I solve that problem sometimes by bringing henchies along (NO MONKS) and use them as sacrificial lambs for corpses.

sledgeunderhill · Feb 09, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Last night I took a tour of the Falls and went as MM as N/R. I used Troll U and Serpents Quickness to keep my spells going. Troll is wonderful to cover up the sacrificing required to keep an army going. I lost count of how many fiends and minions were alive at the max, but suffice to say, it was an easy trip.

The nice thing about Serpents Q is that it's a stance and it will effect skills that are already recharging.

When I'm facing interrupts - N/Me all the way.

Carinae · Feb 09, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by oobi doobi kenoobi

Glyph of Lesser Energy+Verata's Sacrifice+Taste of Death..FTW! Seriously, you'll have so many minions that your hp is never in doubt. Personal best, 36 fiends/horrors ransacking the neighborhood. Now if only people took non /mo 2ndaries to farm...cookiecutter builds should be a thing of the past.

No, No and No. Taste of Death has one and only one valuable function: To destroy a minion enchanted with Death Nova. That's it.

Using ToD as a self-heal is crazy and ultimately self-defeating. Your whole purpose as a MM is to raise and maintain as many minions as possible. There is no comparison at all: ToD kills a minion to heal you. HA heals YOU and also heals nearby minions.

HA is a win-win-win spell. Your healed, minions are healed and you can apply repeated minions heals without losing health. VS -> BotM -> HA -> BotM -> HA -> BotM -> HA

It really isn't a problem in a combat situation either. It's simplicity itself to keep minions between you and your attacker. If you absolutely MUST self-heal while in direct melee, go ahead and use it. A 100-point heal will help you a lot, and your opponent might last, what 1-2 seconds longer under a 40 fiend barrage?

You need to be self-sufficient as a MM. Otherwise you're putting an additional pressure on your monks above and beyond the damage from enemies. No other class continuously loses health as a routine course of their business.

Now, sure, if you are running a Minion Bomber build, then N/E (glyphed VS + DN +ToD) makes a lot of sense. Otherwise, a monk or ranger secondary is better. I still think N/Mo is the stronger of the two, but I'll leave that to personal preference.

byteme! · Feb 09, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

No, No and No. Taste of Death has one and only one valuable function: To destroy a minion enchanted with Death Nova. That's it.

Using ToD as a self-heal is crazy and ultimately self-defeating. Your whole purpose as a MM is to raise and maintain as many minions as possible. There is no comparison at all: ToD kills a minion to heal you. HA heals YOU and also heals nearby minions.

HA is a win-win-win spell. Your healed, minions are healed and you can apply repeated minions heals without losing health. VS -> BotM -> HA -> BotM -> HA -> BotM -> HA

It really isn't a problem in a combat situation either. It's simplicity itself to keep minions between you and your attacker. If you absolutely MUST self-heal while in direct melee, go ahead and use it. A 100-point heal will help you a lot, and your opponent might last, what 1-2 seconds longer under a 40 fiend barrage?

You need to be self-sufficient as a MM. Otherwise you're putting an additional pressure on your monks above and beyond the damage from enemies. No other class continuously loses health as a routine course of their business.

Now, sure, if you are running a Minion Bomber build, then N/E (glyphed VS + DN +ToD) makes a lot of sense. Otherwise, a monk or ranger secondary is better. I still think N/Mo is the stronger of the two, but I'll leave that to personal preference.

AMEN

Hidden Prayers · Feb 09, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

No, No and No. Taste of Death has one and only one valuable function: To destroy a minion enchanted with Death Nova. That's it.

Using ToD as a self-heal is crazy and ultimately self-defeating. Your whole purpose as a MM is to raise and maintain as many minions as possible. There is no comparison at all: ToD kills a minion to heal you. HA heals YOU and also heals nearby minions.

HA is a win-win-win spell. Your healed, minions are healed and you can apply repeated minions heals without losing health. VS -> BotM -> HA -> BotM -> HA -> BotM -> HA

It really isn't a problem in a combat situation either. It's simplicity itself to keep minions between you and your attacker. If you absolutely MUST self-heal while in direct melee, go ahead and use it. A 100-point heal will help you a lot, and your opponent might last, what 1-2 seconds longer under a 40 fiend barrage?

You need to be self-sufficient as a MM. Otherwise you're putting an additional pressure on your monks above and beyond the damage from enemies. No other class continuously loses health as a routine course of their business.

Now, sure, if you are running a Minion Bomber build, then N/E (glyphed VS + DN +ToD) makes a lot of sense. Otherwise, a monk or ranger secondary is better. I still think N/Mo is the stronger of the two, but I'll leave that to personal preference.

I see what you're saying about the ToD situation, but i rarely have come across the case that my fiends attack an enemy just because they attack me. In fact once they enter an enemy's aggro they tend to just run wild...

ToD is more of a problem for me when being used early on in the course of army building, considering as how it severely would hinder that. However one less minion from and army of 40+ makes little difference with winnowing, expecially if you are gaining a large sum of health for it.

My mainstays for MM as N/R will always be serpent's quickness and winnowing.

Also, in lieu of the topic,
before i go experimenting have there been any other monk skills that prove useful to MM?

Carinae · Feb 09, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Vengeance is an awesome resurrect spell for a MM.

It's only a 4 second res, doesn't consume all your energy, and you get two bodies out of it.